Joe watches too many movies. He grew up in central Washington, earned his B.A. in Education and Fine Art, an M.A. in Theology and currently works in the printing industry. During school, he fit in a few film classes. He is interested in writing, theology and hopes to one day compose the ultimate Joe Versus the Volcano commentary track.
Melissa has a B.A. in History and an M.A. in English with an emphasis on Film Studies. She has taken classes on everything from silent to romance to post-colonial films and much in between. Her research and interests lie mainly in feminist film theory, women in film, Hitchcock and the studio era. At the end of the day, however, she just loves films; from Notorious to Die Hard!
Tue, 25 July 2006  When last we saw our hero, M. Night Shyamalan was recovering from mixed reviews for 2004's The Village but still holding a firm deal with Disney, raking in the money and escaping with only minor damage. Now, Shyamalan has switched studios, is rating a 20% fresh rating on rottentomatoes.com and opening in third place. In this episode of WTD, we'll look at the meteoric career of the young director and consider whether he still has a future. Plus, we share some thoughts on what makes a Shyamalan film, our Ten Quiz, a review of Lady in the Water and how you actually pronounce that name.Theme by Deerfoot (at ilovedeerfoot.com) Other music by Jack in the Pulpit (www.jackinthepulpit.com) (Next show: Michael Mann - August 8) Comments[115] |
Do you think that Shyamalan will be able to continue to think of good plots that still move in the genre of the surprise twist? I think of O Henry as another expert in the surprise plot twist. He was only working in short stories, however. Will MNS be able to keep this up or will he be forced to move in another direction by sheer creative demand?
What a great way to spend some movie-thinking time without subjecting to crappy IMDb message boards. The girlfriend's studying tonight, so M. Night Shyamalan gets some of my well-earned attention.
1. Director Score: About an 8, most likely.
2. Best Character: I'll be agreeable and go with Graham Hess from Signs. One of Gibson's best performances.
3. Best Soundtrack: While Unbreakable has a very cool soundtrack, The Village stands out as one of James Newton Howard's greatest achievements (next to King Kong and his part of Batman Begins)
4. Essential Scene: The Hess family watching the Mexican birthday party in Signs. Not only is it a great scene and one of the biggest "jump" moments ever, but it perfectly showcases Shyamalan's Spielbergian talent of pulling sick tension out seemingly standard scenarios.
5. Worst Film: I haven't seen any of his pre-Sixth Sense work, but my least favorites are a tie between Sixth Sense and Lady in the Water. Both are good, but nowhere near as good as Signs, Unbreakable, and The Village. I guess I'll go with Lady in the Water, as Sixth Sense really is a great watch... the first time.
6. Best Film: Signs, with Unbreakable trailing very closely.
7. DVD Recommendation: Again, agreeability wins out, as the Vista Series Unbreakable is very cool.
8. Desert Island Film: Signs has the perfect mix of emotion, scares, and great visuals for me.
9. Anachronist Recast: I really, really, really don't like Rosie O'Donnell, so even though I've not seen Wide Awake, I'll recast her with... say, Frances McDormand. A good, sensible middle-aged actress that doesn't rip into my last nerve.
10. To Remake or To Be Remade: This sounds like massive sacrilidge, but I'd love to see what Shyamalan would do with the silent Spielberg thriller Duel. The original is excellent, but I'd really like to see Shyamalan work with a similar scenario, if not the same one, with maybe William H. Macy in the Dennis Weaver (RIP) role.
1. Director Score: About an 8, most likely.
2. Best Character: I'll be agreeable and go with Graham Hess from Signs. One of Gibson's best performances.
3. Best Soundtrack: While Unbreakable has a very cool soundtrack, The Village stands out as one of James Newton Howard's greatest achievements (next to King Kong and his part of Batman Begins)
4. Essential Scene: The Hess family watching the Mexican birthday party in Signs. Not only is it a great scene and one of the biggest "jump" moments ever, but it perfectly showcases Shyamalan's Spielbergian talent of pulling sick tension out seemingly standard scenarios.
5. Worst Film: I haven't seen any of his pre-Sixth Sense work, but my least favorites are a tie between Sixth Sense and Lady in the Water. Both are good, but nowhere near as good as Signs, Unbreakable, and The Village. I guess I'll go with Lady in the Water, as Sixth Sense really is a great watch... the first time.
6. Best Film: Signs, with Unbreakable trailing very closely.
7. DVD Recommendation: Again, agreeability wins out, as the Vista Series Unbreakable is very cool.
8. Desert Island Film: Signs has the perfect mix of emotion, scares, and great visuals for me.
9. Anachronist Recast: I really, really, really don't like Rosie O'Donnell, so even though I've not seen Wide Awake, I'll recast her with... say, Frances McDormand. A good, sensible middle-aged actress that doesn't rip into my last nerve.
10. To Remake or To Be Remade: This sounds like massive sacrilidge, but I'd love to see what Shyamalan would do with the silent Spielberg thriller Duel. The original is excellent, but I'd really like to see Shyamalan work with a similar scenario, if not the same one, with maybe William H. Macy in the Dennis Weaver (RIP) role.
I think Shyamalan is falling for his own myth. He's not that good of a storyteller and after SIGNS there was a chink in the armor. Unbreakable was a fascinating film, a huge departure from the Sixth Sense, showed he was exploring a better aspect ratio 2.35:1 and writing deeper material. Two lines of the spectrum, a connection of belonging, having a true purpose in life Good or Bad. It didn't do well at the B.O.not as well as The 6th Sense.
So it was back to formula with SIGNS, the look and feel of the film is similar to the Sixth Sense, the children have more importance to the plot (Water and understanding how the aliens communicate). The big flaw of Signs are the Aliens but it doesn't matter whenever Shyamalan messes up BOO! He scares someone or he thinks he does. Sooner or later film audience will look deeper in his films.
The Village was a real WAKE UP CALL about Shyamalan and his tired movie making and made me watch his films more closely. Something went horribly wrong when UNBREAKABLE a good film didn't meet B.O. expectations (THE SIXTH SENSE NUMBERS). With Signs, Shyamalan put in all of the ingredients that made THE SIXTH SENSE a hit: sudden horror tactics, children involved and a Man rediscovering his purpose in life--he even return to his 1.85:1 aspect ratio like THE SIXTH SENSE and BOOM!!! It was a B.O. sensation.
The Village were signs of the worst yet to come. Blind girl can see, Creatures do not exist but attempts scare audiences with the them. It's a lie, he lied to the audience and shows he doesn't care if he does.
When The Village failed he needed to go back to what made SIGNS true to his audience and this time we'll see REAL creatures and more jumps and scares. The children motiff is formula based on the SIXTH SENSE, I watched the gross of this film closely. This determined whether or not baby boomers finally see Shyamalan as a one note filmmaker. Based on BO results they have spoken. LOUDLY.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=ladyinthewater.htm
M. Night Shyamalan wrote this time a larger part for himself. He had smaller roles in the first 4 Films, but this time he almost has the second leading man part! He plays a writer. And Story has to meet that writer. But when Story finds the writer (oh that symbolism!) the plot forgets about it as soon as the meeting takes place.
Shyamalan wrote such bad dialogue that's in his scenes that you have to watch your teeth! There is a scene where Story tells him about his future (yeah, suddenly without any explanation she can see the future!) She tells him that one day he will write a book that will insipire a young kid to become the future President of the United States and that guy will establish a New World Order! Thats actual Dialogue from this Movie. And after that explanation we get a warm close-up of M.Night himself. Too bad I was so sleepy after all those boring scenes - I would have laughed my ass off at that moment! Clearly THE EGO HAS LANDED.
Shyamalan reminds me of the Boy who cried Wolf. It's about a young shepherd boy who gets lonely while tending his flock so he cries out to the villagers that a wolf is attacking the sheep. The people come running but of course, there's no wolf. He claims that it's run away and the villagers praise him for his vigilance.
The next day, the boy does it again and the next, too and on the fourth day, a wolf REALLY COMES. The boy cries out at the top of his lungs but the villagers ignore him and boy and his flock are gobbled up.
The point is, Shyamalan broke the cardinal rule of filmmaking, "YOU DON'T LIE TO YOUR AUDIENCE"
If you lie all the time NOBODY'S going to believe you even when you're telling the truth.
So it was back to formula with SIGNS, the look and feel of the film is similar to the Sixth Sense, the children have more importance to the plot (Water and understanding how the aliens communicate). The big flaw of Signs are the Aliens but it doesn't matter whenever Shyamalan messes up BOO! He scares someone or he thinks he does. Sooner or later film audience will look deeper in his films.
The Village was a real WAKE UP CALL about Shyamalan and his tired movie making and made me watch his films more closely. Something went horribly wrong when UNBREAKABLE a good film didn't meet B.O. expectations (THE SIXTH SENSE NUMBERS). With Signs, Shyamalan put in all of the ingredients that made THE SIXTH SENSE a hit: sudden horror tactics, children involved and a Man rediscovering his purpose in life--he even return to his 1.85:1 aspect ratio like THE SIXTH SENSE and BOOM!!! It was a B.O. sensation.
The Village were signs of the worst yet to come. Blind girl can see, Creatures do not exist but attempts scare audiences with the them. It's a lie, he lied to the audience and shows he doesn't care if he does.
When The Village failed he needed to go back to what made SIGNS true to his audience and this time we'll see REAL creatures and more jumps and scares. The children motiff is formula based on the SIXTH SENSE, I watched the gross of this film closely. This determined whether or not baby boomers finally see Shyamalan as a one note filmmaker. Based on BO results they have spoken. LOUDLY.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=ladyinthewater.htm
M. Night Shyamalan wrote this time a larger part for himself. He had smaller roles in the first 4 Films, but this time he almost has the second leading man part! He plays a writer. And Story has to meet that writer. But when Story finds the writer (oh that symbolism!) the plot forgets about it as soon as the meeting takes place.
Shyamalan wrote such bad dialogue that's in his scenes that you have to watch your teeth! There is a scene where Story tells him about his future (yeah, suddenly without any explanation she can see the future!) She tells him that one day he will write a book that will insipire a young kid to become the future President of the United States and that guy will establish a New World Order! Thats actual Dialogue from this Movie. And after that explanation we get a warm close-up of M.Night himself. Too bad I was so sleepy after all those boring scenes - I would have laughed my ass off at that moment! Clearly THE EGO HAS LANDED.
Shyamalan reminds me of the Boy who cried Wolf. It's about a young shepherd boy who gets lonely while tending his flock so he cries out to the villagers that a wolf is attacking the sheep. The people come running but of course, there's no wolf. He claims that it's run away and the villagers praise him for his vigilance.
The next day, the boy does it again and the next, too and on the fourth day, a wolf REALLY COMES. The boy cries out at the top of his lungs but the villagers ignore him and boy and his flock are gobbled up.
The point is, Shyamalan broke the cardinal rule of filmmaking, "YOU DON'T LIE TO YOUR AUDIENCE"
If you lie all the time NOBODY'S going to believe you even when you're telling the truth.
I think the cardinal rule of filmmaking is more close to being "don't have contempt for your audience". Lying is okay; see The Usual Suspects, or many suspense films; sometimes lying is the perfect way to keep something from the audience, to build tension, and so forth. The flaw comes in when you think you're smarter than the audience.
I haven't felt that with any of Shyamalan's films. If anything, I think his last two have shown how much he cares for and wants his audience to participate and get out of the film what he intends. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it.
And box office is a terrible way to gauge films.
I haven't felt that with any of Shyamalan's films. If anything, I think his last two have shown how much he cares for and wants his audience to participate and get out of the film what he intends. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it.
And box office is a terrible way to gauge films.
Thank you for giving an example from another flawed director's work. What training did that police detective go to in the Usual Suspects? Idiot training for slow cops. I couldn't imagine a police officer wouldn't simply put handcuffs on Kevin Spacey or simply grab a walkie talkie and call an APB to block all traffic areas. Kevin would be caught. It's obvious Singer didn't do his homework but what else is new with him. He did do those X-Men films that made fun of the costumes and preach a gay message. Superman leaves earth and have a bastard child who has asthma--which were never established in the comics.
And before you say it, no I'm not a homophobe and I love all children... well just the ones who can keep quiet. Changing the rules because they can is a cancer for cinema.
I won't mind read what his intentions are for an audience. Characters can lie because it's the nature of the character if she's developed that way. Filmmakers should not change the rules because he feels like it. I don't feel any suspense when it's established the ONES WE DO NOT SPEAK OF is a boris head ham with tree branches covered with a red cloak. Appears during the climax with the blind girl who can SEE red and pulls off a matador. This is a lie to the audience. Could you imagine Spielberg establishes Indiana Jones is afraid of snakes but not a grass snake? Or it's established the nazis were digging in the wrong site but suddenly they were?
Good suspense films do not lie to the audience they keep us engaged in the mystery, the intrigue with the protagonist, and the antagonist.
Box Office is the correct way to tell how a filmmaker is doing with audience members. He needs to do something spectacular for his next film or he will be the weakest link.
And before you say it, no I'm not a homophobe and I love all children... well just the ones who can keep quiet. Changing the rules because they can is a cancer for cinema.
I won't mind read what his intentions are for an audience. Characters can lie because it's the nature of the character if she's developed that way. Filmmakers should not change the rules because he feels like it. I don't feel any suspense when it's established the ONES WE DO NOT SPEAK OF is a boris head ham with tree branches covered with a red cloak. Appears during the climax with the blind girl who can SEE red and pulls off a matador. This is a lie to the audience. Could you imagine Spielberg establishes Indiana Jones is afraid of snakes but not a grass snake? Or it's established the nazis were digging in the wrong site but suddenly they were?
Good suspense films do not lie to the audience they keep us engaged in the mystery, the intrigue with the protagonist, and the antagonist.
Box Office is the correct way to tell how a filmmaker is doing with audience members. He needs to do something spectacular for his next film or he will be the weakest link.
I don't think she was supposed to not be blind at the end of the Village. The reveal of her standing in a patch of red flowers is for the audience, not her. All she senses is the tension of another presence; I don't think that's a lie. As far as the creatures not being real, that's not a lie, either. There are clues that point to the creatures being fake, but if it was out in the open the entire time, the suspense of the final act would be null and void. Shyamalan doesn't so much as he witholds information; I don't see that as lying to your audience.
As far as Singer's films go, and his "homework", that's ridiculous. Of course he knew that in the real world, Verbal would be caught, but the tension of the moment is much more satisfying if he gets away. After that, who knows? Maybe he did get caught; that's unimportant to the climax of the film.
As far as Singer's films go, and his "homework", that's ridiculous. Of course he knew that in the real world, Verbal would be caught, but the tension of the moment is much more satisfying if he gets away. After that, who knows? Maybe he did get caught; that's unimportant to the climax of the film.
Shyamalan uses red repeatedly in his films as a visual cue to the audience. Take "The Sixth Sense" for example. Once the "truth" of the story is revealed at the end of the film, the audience can recall the images of red and realize that Shyamalan was letting them know the true nature of Bruce Willis's character throughout the film (not just at the end). It is the same in "The Village." Shyamalan uses red to cue the audience again, harkening back to his earlier work. The audience can see the images of red in "The Village" and sense the façade of the "creatures."
His stories are more like puzzles than lies. He is not lying to the audience but rather giving a piece of the puzzle at a time. Different spectators see the whole picture sooner than others, but the elements are there all along. The field of red flowers at the end of "The Village" is meant to emphasize the "truth" that was there all along - the creatures were constructs of the villagers.
Shyamalan’s films are fantasy and surely a bit formulaic, but they invite the audience to participate in the journey. You either play along or you don’t. If you don’t, you may never understand why others find any satisfaction with the stories. One can argue semantics all one wants, but the reality is, film is not reality, it is an escape. Hopefully a filmmaker works within the constructs of the world they create, while pushing the boundaries of the real and expected (especially with a filmmaker like Shyamalan who is working in a decidedly UN-realistic genre).
His stories are more like puzzles than lies. He is not lying to the audience but rather giving a piece of the puzzle at a time. Different spectators see the whole picture sooner than others, but the elements are there all along. The field of red flowers at the end of "The Village" is meant to emphasize the "truth" that was there all along - the creatures were constructs of the villagers.
Shyamalan’s films are fantasy and surely a bit formulaic, but they invite the audience to participate in the journey. You either play along or you don’t. If you don’t, you may never understand why others find any satisfaction with the stories. One can argue semantics all one wants, but the reality is, film is not reality, it is an escape. Hopefully a filmmaker works within the constructs of the world they create, while pushing the boundaries of the real and expected (especially with a filmmaker like Shyamalan who is working in a decidedly UN-realistic genre).
posted by: Melissa on Thu, 9/14 07:11 PM EDT
I think M.Night is one of those directors that's bringing his own food to the table, ya know.
I like all his movies even, (gritting teeth) "Unbreakable". I haven't his recent but I look forward to whatever else he does.
I think people now look at him like Heroin, after the first twist they're looking for another one but it's not as good to them.
I think he's one of the most original story tellers and that's in a pretty small group.
If you read this online, tell people to stop playin' and listen to this show.
I like all his movies even, (gritting teeth) "Unbreakable". I haven't his recent but I look forward to whatever else he does.
I think people now look at him like Heroin, after the first twist they're looking for another one but it's not as good to them.
I think he's one of the most original story tellers and that's in a pretty small group.
If you read this online, tell people to stop playin' and listen to this show.
Most weeks I haven't seen enough of a director's films to benefit from listening to the show, which is a pity because the ones I can listen to are very good. I'm more of a movie buff in-training - but I love his work, and I thought I'd contribute, having recently done a similar caper through his career on my blog.
1. Director Score - 8.4. All 8s and 9s. I'm too stingy to give 10s.
2. Best character - agh! *mentally flicks*
Either Bo Hess from Signs (I've got a better reason for this than her being cute...honest... I'll remember it later...) or the critic from Lady in the Water (His precence, to a certain extent, sends up Shyamalan's usual precice scriptwriting. His deconstruction of the plot to come is priceless, as is his reasoning why he won't be killed)
3. Best soundtrack - they're all wonderful, but The Village is fantastic fantastic.
4. Essential scene - the problem with his films is they're so seamless and well constructed, it's hard to pull one bit out on its own. The basement scene in Signs (which, er, streches for about 15 minutes) is...I can't think of anything intelligent and critical to say without decending into gushing praise.
5. Worst film - I don't want to pick on Lady in the Water, but I can't help liking it less than the rest.
6. Best film - this is quite hard. My favourite is Signs, but having rewatched Unbreakable recently I've a sneaking feeling it was a better film, even though I don't love it so much.
7. DVD recommendation - Sixth Sense, on the grounds that you'll want a second watch.
8. Desert Island Film - Hmmm, most rewatchable. Not sure. I'd probably take Signs, because it would give me hope while stuck on my own.
9. Key Collaborator - definitely James Newton Howard. His wonderful music complements the films perfectly, making them more beautiful.
10. To remake or recast - I simply dislike William Hurt in everything I've seen him in. The Village would (for me, at least) be better without him. I've no idea who to replace him with though...
1. Director Score - 8.4. All 8s and 9s. I'm too stingy to give 10s.
2. Best character - agh! *mentally flicks*
Either Bo Hess from Signs (I've got a better reason for this than her being cute...honest... I'll remember it later...) or the critic from Lady in the Water (His precence, to a certain extent, sends up Shyamalan's usual precice scriptwriting. His deconstruction of the plot to come is priceless, as is his reasoning why he won't be killed)
3. Best soundtrack - they're all wonderful, but The Village is fantastic fantastic.
4. Essential scene - the problem with his films is they're so seamless and well constructed, it's hard to pull one bit out on its own. The basement scene in Signs (which, er, streches for about 15 minutes) is...I can't think of anything intelligent and critical to say without decending into gushing praise.
5. Worst film - I don't want to pick on Lady in the Water, but I can't help liking it less than the rest.
6. Best film - this is quite hard. My favourite is Signs, but having rewatched Unbreakable recently I've a sneaking feeling it was a better film, even though I don't love it so much.
7. DVD recommendation - Sixth Sense, on the grounds that you'll want a second watch.
8. Desert Island Film - Hmmm, most rewatchable. Not sure. I'd probably take Signs, because it would give me hope while stuck on my own.
9. Key Collaborator - definitely James Newton Howard. His wonderful music complements the films perfectly, making them more beautiful.
10. To remake or recast - I simply dislike William Hurt in everything I've seen him in. The Village would (for me, at least) be better without him. I've no idea who to replace him with though...
posted by: Ninquelosse on Wed, 4/11 07:14 AM EDT
I finally got around to listening to this podcast, because I've never been a big MNS fan, and I was shocked at how high he scored with you and others. I think his movies lack subtlety and nuance, and are overly gimmick-y in general, and he's really heavy-handed with his symbolism, which is never clever enough to warrant it. The scene that comes to mind as an example is the climactic confrontation in Signs, where all those "nonsensical" pronouncements from the wife/mother are shown to be premontions of this moment. The whole movie slows down and feels like it is moving through molasses as MNS parses every moment, making sure that even the retards in the audience "get it." It's insulting and ruins the movie for me.
And this whole "red" thing - come on. Do the "red flags" in his movies have to be red? I mean, at this point in the culture, red has ceased to even be a normal color. It's just reduces it to more heavy-handed gimmickry from MNS. Every other movie I've seen of his since the sixth sense has seemed trite and contrived, with an emerging pretentiousness that mirrors the growth of his own ego.
I understand that the director scoring is subjective, but I think there is something fundamentally out of alignment with the system when MNS ranks #4 on a list of 21, beating out such directors as M. Mann, Tarentino, David Fincher, and SCORSESE (Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???)
and tying with H. Hawks
And this whole "red" thing - come on. Do the "red flags" in his movies have to be red? I mean, at this point in the culture, red has ceased to even be a normal color. It's just reduces it to more heavy-handed gimmickry from MNS. Every other movie I've seen of his since the sixth sense has seemed trite and contrived, with an emerging pretentiousness that mirrors the growth of his own ego.
I understand that the director scoring is subjective, but I think there is something fundamentally out of alignment with the system when MNS ranks #4 on a list of 21, beating out such directors as M. Mann, Tarentino, David Fincher, and SCORSESE (Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???)
and tying with H. Hawks
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