Joe watches too many movies. He grew up in central Washington, earned his B.A. in Education and Fine Art, an M.A. in Theology and currently works in the printing industry. During school, he fit in a few film classes. He is interested in writing, theology and hopes to one day compose the ultimate Joe Versus the Volcano commentary track.
Melissa has a B.A. in History and an M.A. in English with an emphasis on Film Studies. She has taken classes on everything from silent to romance to post-colonial films and much in between. Her research and interests lie mainly in feminist film theory, women in film, Hitchcock and the studio era. At the end of the day, however, she just loves films; from Notorious to Die Hard!
Sun, 4 March 2007  Looking back at Rick Springfield's 'Dance This World Away' music video, it might be hard to believe that its director, David Fincher, would eventually be known for serial murderers, disturbing violence and a technical prowess that has become legendary. Through atmospheric crime thrillers like Se7en and the cutting edge adaptation of Chuck Pahlahniuk's Fight Club, Fincher has built a career on shattering theatrical expectations, beginning murmurs of master status. On this edition of WTD, we look at the career of the new master, complete with our 10 Quiz (and several guest quizzes), 5 Minute Filmography and a review of his new release, Zodiac.Theme by Deerfoot (at ilovedeerfoot.com) Additional music by The Eisenhowers (at www.myspace.com/eisenhowers) Also, check out the Hollywood Saloon's in-depth overview of Fincher's film career (at www.hollywoodsaloon.com). (Next show: Ridley Scott - Mar 20) Comments[190] |
Excellent show on a very interesting director. I couldn't agree more with your comments on 'Fight Club'; it is clearly a film with a moral compass, unlike 'Clockwork Orange'.
I'm so glad to have discovered this podcast. I see that David Cronenberg is on your 'ten most requested' list ... I'd love to hear that show!
I'm so glad to have discovered this podcast. I see that David Cronenberg is on your 'ten most requested' list ... I'd love to hear that show!
posted by: Ray on Sun, 3/4 04:53 PM EST
Other than "Babel," the only other film that I have seen some great acting by Brad Pitt is "Fight Club." Though I have not seen "Se7en" I bet Pitt is very good in that also and I hope he and Fincher will reunite again in the future. Like the pairing of DiCaprio and Scorcese, or Hanks/Cruise and Spielberg, inspiration and risk taking seem to arise from Pitt and Fincher's partnership.
I wonder why episode 19 did not upload to my iTunes subscription? Is everything OK from your end?
When studying film in NYC in the early 70's, I was in love with the work of Claude Lelouche but found so little about him published in English. I thought his work was quintessential contemporary romanticism. Was I the only one, or have you two found his work worth screening? I'd love to hear your take on his work.
Thank you for your refreshing view, pure joy without the commercial hype. Brings back my youthful love of film for film sake, before the pop and glitter jaded me away.
When studying film in NYC in the early 70's, I was in love with the work of Claude Lelouche but found so little about him published in English. I thought his work was quintessential contemporary romanticism. Was I the only one, or have you two found his work worth screening? I'd love to hear your take on his work.
Thank you for your refreshing view, pure joy without the commercial hype. Brings back my youthful love of film for film sake, before the pop and glitter jaded me away.
posted by: Robert Seltman on Mon, 3/12 03:44 AM EDT
Robert, Everything seems fine on our end. We've had some complaints in the past about episodes not loading on iTunes. What we, and other listeners, have found is that they usually work fine in a day or two. Who knows why. As for Claude Lelouche, he looks like an interesting director. We will definitely add him to our list and consider him for the future. Surprisingly, he has a lot of films available on DVD, so we would have quite a bit to view before we could do a show on him. Thank you for your suggestion and thanks for listening!
posted by: Melissa on Mon, 3/12 11:59 AM EDT
Love your podcasts and I enjoyed listening to your deliberations on Fincher and his work.
One thing I had a problem with though, is how you limit your discussions to just a few of a directors films, skipping over what are sometimes, great works. In Fincher's case, Aliens 3 deserves at least some attention. Panic Room was also quite good.
One thing I had a problem with though, is how you limit your discussions to just a few of a directors films, skipping over what are sometimes, great works. In Fincher's case, Aliens 3 deserves at least some attention. Panic Room was also quite good.
Thanks for the most excellent podcast on fincher. I was on a solo drive from San Francisco to Seattle and it was fun to listen to. I have two comments. One regards the end of the game, which I agree is problematic but I do not share your dread of it. I read this ending as a metaphor for the film making process in general, wherein all the action, from the point of view of the crew making the film, is 'a game'. Maybe you'd have to work on a film crew to get this, I don't know. But you work so intensely for a goal and then move on to the next gig. I have a feeling fincher might have been making some commentary on the transitive nature of the story telling apparatus of motion pictures where its all just a massive illusion or magic trick.
Second comment is that I agree the matt Damon suggestion on my ten quiz was lame and I really did not give this much thought. But I did not realize I could suggest a fincher remake instead. So I hear by formally withdraw my Matt Damon recast and replace it with Putting fincher at the helm of the Manchurian candidate remake. I like Demme's film but know that fincher would have made it much better.
Second comment is that I agree the matt Damon suggestion on my ten quiz was lame and I really did not give this much thought. But I did not realize I could suggest a fincher remake instead. So I hear by formally withdraw my Matt Damon recast and replace it with Putting fincher at the helm of the Manchurian candidate remake. I like Demme's film but know that fincher would have made it much better.
posted by: Dan Colvin on Mon, 3/12 11:01 PM EDT
crap! now i have to go watch The Game again. like melissa, i also remeber liking the ending, but i am starting to wonder if i am actually remembering it properly also.
as for brad pitt and his 'shakyness' in Se7en. i also thought it worked well in contrast to freemans 'calmness' - and while you have to give fincher credit for the performance to a point, that 'shakyness' is part of pitt's m.o. - see Twelve Monkeys and Snatch as examples.
for the remake - i know that at one point fincher was attached to Mission Impossible 3. and i think that could have been cool. sure it's a little more mainstream and such, but it is a pretty fun canvas for him to paint on. and especially since i didn't like j.j.'s film i am even more curious as to where fincher would have gone with it.
as for brad pitt and his 'shakyness' in Se7en. i also thought it worked well in contrast to freemans 'calmness' - and while you have to give fincher credit for the performance to a point, that 'shakyness' is part of pitt's m.o. - see Twelve Monkeys and Snatch as examples.
for the remake - i know that at one point fincher was attached to Mission Impossible 3. and i think that could have been cool. sure it's a little more mainstream and such, but it is a pretty fun canvas for him to paint on. and especially since i didn't like j.j.'s film i am even more curious as to where fincher would have gone with it.
posted by: Jesse on Tue, 3/13 10:56 AM EDT
Dan, we are strangely on the same page with Fincher! My original "to be remade" was "The Manchurian Candidate." Although I don't think the original actually needs a remake, I do think Fincher could have gone somewhere really twisted with it.
Sorry for giving you such a hard time about Matt Damon... :)
Jesse, let me know what you think about "The Game" after you watch it again.
Sorry for giving you such a hard time about Matt Damon... :)
Jesse, let me know what you think about "The Game" after you watch it again.
posted by: Melissa on Tue, 3/13 12:22 PM EDT
Does anyone else dislike the ending to "Fight Club"? I had not read the book before and no one revealed the ending to me prior to viewing, but after seeing the spliced images of Tyler Durden (Pitt) every few minutes in the beginning of the film, I had figured out the ending. Also, the morning after Marla and Tyler first have sex and Marla is extremely upset by the narrator's question "what are you doing here?" my speculations were confirmed as true. I am not going to give away the ending and am also not trying to brag or anything like that, I am just stating that it took away from my enjoyment in viewing what was a very good film which could have been great.
I loved the ending of "Fight Club." Although there were clues that characters may not be who/what they seemed, it was still a trip seeing it all unravel. I remember looking over at Joe after the end, sort of blown away, and saying "that movies was AWESOME!" Plus, you get the "Sixth Sense" effect, where all these images come flooding back and it all makes sense (or for those who already figured it out, it makes MORE sense).
I'm curious, A.J., do you have a suggestion for a different ending? Let me know, will you?!
I'm curious, A.J., do you have a suggestion for a different ending? Let me know, will you?!
posted by: Melissa on Tue, 3/13 08:00 PM EDT
"Fight Club" was indeed a very good, thought provoking film. Any film that can make me forget that Meat Loaf is actually Meat Loaf, but instead "Robert Paulson" is a great film to me.
I am having difficulty placing a finger on what it is exactly that I did not like about the ending. I should not say that I did not like it or that I was even disappointed, I was just not as satisfied as I thought I would be. I was hoping that Edward Norton's character would be able to recover from his "dreamlike" state of living without any flaws. I was hoping for an ending complete with love and forgiveness for all, though as the film progressed and revealed darker and darker material, I realized that Norton's character was being engulfed by the influence of Fight Club and would be changed forever, for the good or the bad. Tyler Durden stood for some strong ideals such as rebirth, equality, and "live life at this moment" way of thinking, though his ways of making his ideals into reality, though sometimes brillaint, were mostly wrong and immoral. I was hoping that Norton would take with him those brillaint ideas that Durden proposed, but I was wrong to assume that Durden's mark would not be left on Norton (a bullet through the neck). I guess I was looking for a much more idealistic ending than its realistic one. On the other hand, I loved the last line of the film that Norton says while holding Marla's hand and watching the banks explode, "You met me at a very strange time in my life." This last line holds great promise for some sort of redemption in Norton's character.
I am having difficulty placing a finger on what it is exactly that I did not like about the ending. I should not say that I did not like it or that I was even disappointed, I was just not as satisfied as I thought I would be. I was hoping that Edward Norton's character would be able to recover from his "dreamlike" state of living without any flaws. I was hoping for an ending complete with love and forgiveness for all, though as the film progressed and revealed darker and darker material, I realized that Norton's character was being engulfed by the influence of Fight Club and would be changed forever, for the good or the bad. Tyler Durden stood for some strong ideals such as rebirth, equality, and "live life at this moment" way of thinking, though his ways of making his ideals into reality, though sometimes brillaint, were mostly wrong and immoral. I was hoping that Norton would take with him those brillaint ideas that Durden proposed, but I was wrong to assume that Durden's mark would not be left on Norton (a bullet through the neck). I guess I was looking for a much more idealistic ending than its realistic one. On the other hand, I loved the last line of the film that Norton says while holding Marla's hand and watching the banks explode, "You met me at a very strange time in my life." This last line holds great promise for some sort of redemption in Norton's character.
Someone once described really good art as anything that disturbs you on first viewing. While not fully in agreement with this statement, there is a lot of truth in it. I think the fact that Fincher's film always distrub, and often hit a discordent chord with the audience is just another sign that he's usually on to something.
As for The Game, its still on of my favorites. And, just to be clear, the I can live with ending just fine. I think the shot of James Rebhorn dancing with the party hat says it all.
You got to admit the movie as some truely awesom moments:
the opening sequence is a work art
the TV news talking to Nicholas Van Orton, is wonderful
The "Physical" he takes to get into the game, including the weird 'reaction time is a factor" movie test with the weird art film playing
Getting in the Suicide taxi with the 60's musac playing
Realizing that Christine's apartment is just a 'set' --again the film crew metaphor
waking up in Mexico "Might I just suggest that anyone with watch like that, dosn't have a passport problem"
The whole chinise box structure of the film.
What an amazing sense of humor in this film!
-dan
As for The Game, its still on of my favorites. And, just to be clear, the I can live with ending just fine. I think the shot of James Rebhorn dancing with the party hat says it all.
You got to admit the movie as some truely awesom moments:
the opening sequence is a work art
the TV news talking to Nicholas Van Orton, is wonderful
The "Physical" he takes to get into the game, including the weird 'reaction time is a factor" movie test with the weird art film playing
Getting in the Suicide taxi with the 60's musac playing
Realizing that Christine's apartment is just a 'set' --again the film crew metaphor
waking up in Mexico "Might I just suggest that anyone with watch like that, dosn't have a passport problem"
The whole chinise box structure of the film.
What an amazing sense of humor in this film!
-dan
posted by: Dan Colvin on Wed, 3/14 10:48 PM EDT
I enjoyed the show in David Fincher immensely. I wonder why I always enjoy a director's worst films though? I loved The Game too Melissa but I'll have to agree with Joe. I went back and watched it again... and the ending really is disappointing. It's as if "Alan Smithee" stepped in at the last minute and worked "his" awful magic on the thing.
I'm too afraid to go see Zodiac just like I was too chicken to watch Seven. Perhaps one day that will change.
Fight Club is my favorite Fincher film. It was dark, humorous, visceral and true without being needlessly nilhistic. The fact that it featured Edward Norton didn't hurt either. I really do believe that Fincher is a young Scorsese. Hope to see many more films from him. Thanks Joe and Melissa!
I'm too afraid to go see Zodiac just like I was too chicken to watch Seven. Perhaps one day that will change.
Fight Club is my favorite Fincher film. It was dark, humorous, visceral and true without being needlessly nilhistic. The fact that it featured Edward Norton didn't hurt either. I really do believe that Fincher is a young Scorsese. Hope to see many more films from him. Thanks Joe and Melissa!
In the book "Reflections: Twenty-One Cinematographers At Work", Se7en's cinematographer Darius Khondji goes into detail about creating the look of the film.
Forever the DP's advocate, I'd like to remind listeners that a lot of the look that Fincher is able to achieve in his films is only achieved through his excellent choice of DP for each project. If you watch a film like Jeunet's "Delicatessen" or "City of Lost Children", Fincher KNEW what he wanted for Se7en and who could get that for him.
I just always feel, when it comes to "lighting" as a technique, that a lot more of the credit needs to lean towards the DP...but you guys are definitely correct when talking about the use of shadow and having his actors play with light and shadow to create some very tense and beautiful moments.
Forever the DP's advocate, I'd like to remind listeners that a lot of the look that Fincher is able to achieve in his films is only achieved through his excellent choice of DP for each project. If you watch a film like Jeunet's "Delicatessen" or "City of Lost Children", Fincher KNEW what he wanted for Se7en and who could get that for him.
I just always feel, when it comes to "lighting" as a technique, that a lot more of the credit needs to lean towards the DP...but you guys are definitely correct when talking about the use of shadow and having his actors play with light and shadow to create some very tense and beautiful moments.
Great podcast on Fincher. The Game is one of my favorite films and I beg you both to rewatch it. It is such a metaphor for how God watches over us from sinner, to being born again, to truly know God is in control (when he falls through the building right into the X). To me, it amazing!
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